Curse

Senator Tom · Apr 04, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Sundering - Effects on damage on different armor

Attacks done with a max damage, no +damage mod axe at 12 axe mastery.
With Sundering = 10% Sundering = 10 Strength = 10% Sundering
Without Sundering = 0 Strength

60 armor;
48 - critical hit without sundering
53 - critical hit with sundering
damage increase - ~10%

80 armor;
34 - critical hit without sundering
39 - critical hit with sundering
damage increase - ~15%

100 armor;
24 - critical hit without sundering
28 - critical hit with sundering
damage increase - ~17%

------------------------------------

Tests done on a 100 armor target

#1
in ten hits, the damage done was as follows
16, 15, 7, 15, 7, 6, 8, 9, 9, 24
total damage - 116

low - 6
high - 24 (critical)
average - 11.6

now if a Sundering (+10% chance 10%) Axe was used instead of a non-sundering:

say the sundering was on the low.
6*.17=1.02
so it would have hit for ~7 damage instead of 6, increasing the average by .1 (damge of 116 raised to 117, average of 11.6 raised to 11.7)

say the sundering was on the high.
24*.17=4.08
so it would have hit for ~28 damage instead of 24, increasing the average by .4 (116 to 120, 11.6 to 12)

say there were two sundering hits, one on the high and one on the low.
+5.1 damage (4.08+1.02), increasing the average by .5 (116 to 121, 11.6 to 12.1)

more trials to come, more trials on different armors to come

enjoy!

Murder In China · Apr 04, 2006, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Wouldn't a Candy Cane Axe provide more consistant damage?

Senator Tom · Apr 04, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

Wouldn't a Candy Cane Axe provide more consistant damage?

does it always hit for the same amount?

Rey Lentless · Apr 04, 2006, 05:18 AM // 05:18

If you want a damage mod, use a vampiric.

Murder In China · Apr 04, 2006, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Tom

does it always hit for the same amount?

10-10 Slashing Damage (No requirement needed.)

Rustjive · Apr 04, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29

It breaks down fairly easily. Sundering on first glance does 1% more damage on average, and after calculations it's actually about 1.9%. A vamp mod for swords and axes does +3 damage per hit. The only way that +1.9% damage would be greater than +3 damage is if you did 158+ damage for that hit, every hit.

Good luck with that.

Edit: http://www.fender.net/sunderingsucks.htm

Lateralus · Apr 04, 2006, 05:35 AM // 05:35

The fact is, sundering is not worth getting when it's max chance is 1 out of 10. Sell it to rich noobs.

Senator Tom · Apr 04, 2006, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustjive

It breaks down fairly easily. Sundering on first glance does 1% more damage on average, and after calculations it's actually about 1.9%. A vamp mod for swords and axes does +3 damage per hit. The only way that +1.9% damage would be greater than +3 damage is if you did 158+ damage for that hit, every hit.

Good luck with that.

Edit: http://www.fender.net/sunderingsucks.htm

vampiric does more extra damage than a 10/10 sundering no doubt about it

LightningHell · Apr 04, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

A Vampiric 1:1 would be better than a Sundering, goddamnit.

LightningHell · Apr 04, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

10-10 Slashing Damage (No requirement needed.)

Of course, there's still the Armor Penetration - Weapon Mastery argument thingy.

Blitzy · Apr 04, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Erm, considering there's a 1 in 10 chance of the sundering actually coming into play, and you are testing over 10 hits whilst adding 2 (2 in 10 chance...) sundering hits for your calculations....isn't there a flaw here? +2.55 dmg over 10 shots perhaps? (on average, of course, sometimes 4.08, sometimes 1.02, usually in the middle).

2.55Dmg over 10 shots = poor. Not sure as I've only had a skim over it....ze boss is approaching. Nice read anyway.

LightningHell · Apr 04, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzy

Erm, considering there's a 1 in 10 chance of the sundering actually coming into play, and you are testing over 10 hits whilst adding 2 (2 in 10 chance...) sundering hits for your calculations....isn't there a flaw here? +2.55 dmg over 10 shots perhaps? (on average, of course, sometimes 4.08, sometimes 1.02, usually in the middle).

2.55Dmg over 10 shots = poor. Not sure as I've only had a skim over it....ze boss is approaching. Nice read anyway.

Which is why even the worst Vampiric mod can outdamage it.

Thock · Apr 04, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustjive

Edit:http://www.fender.net/sunderingsucks.htm

Off topic:
On that site it lists crit hit chance as 1.5 per attribute level (24 at lvl 16), is this accurate? I have the Spike damage calculator found on the community works forum and it lists crit rate as a flat 20% chance, which is correct?

On topic:
Yes, sundering sucks, in most cases it would be better to have an elemental prefix. I personally use either Zealous or Vampiric mods usually, depending on how energy dependent the build is. I have no idea why it is such a popular and expensive mod.

Murder In China · Apr 04, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Of course, there's still the Armor Penetration - Weapon Mastery argument thingy.

If you use an attack skill.

Plus he didn't even place any points in Axe Mastery nor Strength. So there shouldn't be any armor penetration except when Sundering occurs.

The Real Roy Keane · Apr 04, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

z0mg stFu n00bs i uSe sUndaRng on mi cRistaline swrod and it pwns.

Fungus Amongus · Apr 04, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Compare sundering vs vampiric with no fewer than 100 hits per single test. 10 hits is far from enough to draw conclusions on a 10% chance mod. Get back to us if you have the patience to test it. I tested Bone Minions' damage over 100 hits for 2 rounds....then I gave up.

Valerius · Apr 04, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thock

I have no idea why it is such a popular and expensive mod.

most just look for the bigger number imo... 10 is larger then 5 or 3 so it must be better right? also the fact that so many players don't know how to weild vamp weapons (don't like the degen... so they use mending or w/e... or they don't like to switch weapons out of battle...)

same goes with fort imo... they see 30 bigger then 5 and that's why fort is like 20x more expensive... even tho the two are pretty similar

icemonkey · Apr 04, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

30 health is way better, +5 armro is only good for warriors solo'ing pve

Kais Unduli · Apr 04, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Having the extra health is better when dealing with conditions/degen. Why do you think people are still selling Victo's Bulwark at a high price?

Senator Tom · Apr 04, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fungus Amongus

Compare sundering vs vampiric with no fewer than 100 hits per single test. 10 hits is far from enough to draw conclusions on a 10% chance mod. Get back to us if you have the patience to test it. I tested Bone Minions' damage over 100 hits for 2 rounds....then I gave up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Tom

more trials to come

didnt have much time last night
and also, this thread is about sundering, not sundering vs vampiric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

Plus he didn't even place any points in Axe Mastery nor Strength.

i had 12 in axe mastery, and would put 10 into strength when i wanted to see the damage with a 10% sundering